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Loren Baker: Good afternoon, and welcome to another episode of Search & Deploy, a Rainmaker.FM and Foundation Digital production. This is your host, Loren Baker. And with me today, I’m going to have Melissa Fach of Authority Labs and Pubcon. Melissa has a number of years in the SEO industry, and as of late, I think for the past, you know, three or four years, she has been focusing more on community building and community management, along with publishing for a number of her clients that are actually in the SEO industry. So, Melissa has more or less transitioned from doing client-specific work to more so putting together a B2B offering for search and conference companies. So Melissa, welcome to Search & Deploy!
Melissa Fach: Thank you.
Loren Baker: It’s great to finally have you on here. I know we’ve been trying multiple times to get together, which has been my fault due to technical malfunctions.
Melissa Fach: Yeah. That’s okay.
Loren Baker: Yeah. So, you know, let’s do quick rundown. Would you like to introduce yourself to our listeners today?
Melissa Fach: Sure! I’m Melissa Fach, as Loren said. I’m the social community manager for Pubcon, and my title at Authority Labs is Community Jedi.
Loren Baker: Nice.
Melissa Fach: And I do some…yeah. I do some consulting behind the scenes for clients, and that’s my 50, 60-hour work week, right there.
Loren Baker: Cool, cool.
Melissa Fach: Yeah.
Loren Baker: So I think we first met about…what, five years ago? Just to give everyone a little bit of background. Melissa used to be the head editor over at Search Engine Journal for a number of years, and now she’s moved on to work with multiple companies in Search. And I think when I first contacted you, there were two reasons. One, ‘cause you were local. ‘Cause I was living in Tampa, Florida at the time, and you were down in Sarasota.
Melissa Fach: Mhmm.
Loren Baker: And two, because it sounded like you really knew what you were talking about. So…but at the time, you were doing a lot of training, right? Weren’t you doing, like, a lot of SEO training, or something? Didn’t you have an SEO training offering? That you were putting out there?
Melissa Fach: I did. I did, yes. And I had clients. But you know, the economy fell apart, Loren, and you know it hit Florida really hard.
Loren Baker: It did.
Melissa Fach: The local clients became difficult. It was a lot of hand-holding and…not sending in their payments, and…you know what I mean?
Loren Baker: Mhmm.
Melissa Fach: And I…I was really getting burnt out. I think I’d worked so long and so hard that I was just kind of…ready for a change, so when you came to me about the SEJ job, I was, like, “Yes!” “Let’s do something different!” You know, so…
Loren Baker: So you were getting a little bit burnt out of…not only doing the consulting, but putting together the contracts, sending the invoices, following up on the invoices, making sure everything’s…the day-to-day, really.
Melissa Fach: The day-to-day. Because it was just me. It was me doing the work, and me handling all of the business on top of it, while being a mother. You know, it was just…I was…very tired. So…yeah.
Loren Baker: Yeah, I hear you. I mean, that’s…you know. When I think back about six or seven years ago, I was pretty much doing the same thing. Like, doing all the consulting, I was doing a lot of link building back then. But for the most part, I was all on my own. The only difference was, I wasn’t a mother. At the time.
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: And, so, you know. That’s one reason I started trying to…trying to get more on the agency side. But it is…it can be a hassle. It can be draining. So what’s changed between…well, first of all, what are you doing now, right? Five years later? What changed…during that course, for you, on a day-to-day basis?
Melissa Fach: Well, I mean…as you know, I jumped into SEJ and I worked a lot on that, because I…I had a mission and a goal.
Loren Baker: Right.
Melissa Fach: And I tend to be, like, a perfectionist, and want things a certain way. I put a lot of effort into the editing and the fact-checking for all the articles coming in. So the SEO really paid off, because I knew what was accurate and what was not.
Loren Baker: Right.
Melissa Fach: But what I really found that I enjoyed was the community aspect at SEJ. The…interacting with the community every day, the social side. Getting to know people. I really enjoyed that. It made me happy. And it was the first work that had made me happy in a long time. So…you know, after SEJ, Moz asked me to come on and do some editing and then I ended up in the social team for a while, and, you know…it’s just kind of snowballed and become…community and social more for me. I still do editing and I do, you know, some SEO, and, you know, I help writers behind the scenes.
Loren Baker: Right.
Melissa Fach: But, that’s…it’s mostly community at this point.
Loren Baker: That’s really interesting, too, because, like, you jumped from…you jumped from a publication to a tool company, right?
Melissa Fach: Mhmm.
Loren Baker: And, you know, a lot of people see Moz as a publication. Some people see Moz as a tool company. Some people see Moz as this grand palace up there in Seattle that you venture to once a year to meet the wizard. But…and I think that’s Rand’s unofficial title, right? The Wizard of Moz. But…
Melissa Fach: Yes.
Loren Baker: Point being is that Moz was actually kind of…it’s always been different, and I brought this up numerous time as an example of the power of building community. Is that Moz wasn’t always a tool company, right? They used to be a services company.
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: And…community was first, right? ‘Cause a lot of folks that came over to Moz were originally into the forums that Rand had contributed to. He used to be a big contributor in Cre8asite Forums, back in the day.
Melissa Fach: Mhmm.
Loren Baker: Kim Krause Berg’s old forum. And…when he started building up the Moz community, it got to the point of…it was such a strong community that if it was a services company, or if it was a tool company, or a hybrid, or…you know, more so what it is now, getting into local tools and social and everything, the community base is still there. So it’s not like you jumped from a publication to…say, a company that was starting…was saying, “Hey, we wanna start a community from scratch.” Type thing.
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: It’s actually…a really neat learning experience.
Melissa Fach: Yes. Yeah. And then, you know, he released…Linkscape in 2008 at SMX East.
Loren Baker: Mhmm.
Melissa Fach: Which is actually where I met Rand. And it just kinda snowballed for them, you know?
Loren Baker: Yeah.
Melissa Fach: Because they had that community. The user-generated content built that community even more, you know? So they’ve…they’ve done a fabulous job at building a massive community of people.
Loren Baker: They have. They have.
Melissa Fach: Yeah.
Loren Baker: And then, for Moz, what was the next step?
Melissa Fach: Well, that was Pubcon, you know. I had run the social for Pubcon in 2013 from Florida.
Loren Baker: Okay.
Melissa Fach: And…Brett said, “I need someone to run it.” I did it. I…loved it. I love…I love, first of all, lemme say I love Pubcon. I think Brett knows that I love Pubcon.
Loren Baker: We all love Pubcon.
Melissa Fach: So it was…it was a good fit.
Loren Baker: Mhmm.
Melissa Fach: And I…you know. So, Brett and I had been talking, and it was time for me to make a change. When I was working for Moz, I…you know. They are on Seattle time. And they needed someone early East Coast time to be managing social in the mornings while they’re still sleeping.
Loren Baker: Yeah.
Melissa Fach: You know? So every day, 8 to, like, 12:30, 1:00, there was never a stop. It was every day, I was on. Which was fine. I loved the job. It was a fantastic opportunity, and I learned a tremendous amount; however, you get to the point where you start to get burnt out, you know? And there’s just…there’s no breaks. And I was a contractor. So when you’re an associate at Moz, you’re a contractor. You’re not, like, a paid employee. So, you know, you’re paid for when you work, and I just kept working, so…so…you know, then I’d get done with Moz, and I worked for Authority Labs for the rest of the day. And then they’re in Phoenix. Moz is in Seattle.
Loren Baker: Right.
Melissa Fach: So their…my 8 o’clock is their 5 o’clock. So if you can imagine that I’m up…I have a kid at school by 7:30. I’m home working by 8, and I usually didn’t quit looking at my cell phone until I went to bed, checking emails so that I was ready for the next day, you know? So…
Loren Baker: Well, it’s kind of crazy how that works, because…you went from doing the training and the consulting, which you didn’t hate, but it wasn’t your dream thing, right? And then you got into more of the community management where the community participation was, which is natural for you, right?
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: It’s natural for me. Like, you know…for…I spend about an hour in the morning catching up on what people are talking about on social media.
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: And…I don’t know how to classify that. Right? I don’t know if it’s work to, like, comment on Ryan Jones’ latest post on Facebook, or if it’s not work, or…you know, whatever. So…there…it is kinda like this…and I don’t want to say it’s a problem, but it’s like this…it’s something that would make it difficult to control if you’re updating your time management. You know, if you’re updating Toggl, right?
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: Toggl on. Check mail. Tweet. You know, check what’s going on on Facebook. Toggl off. It’s hard to turn on and off.
Melissa Fach: I think we’re…we’re in a tough industry.
Loren Baker: Mhmm.
Melissa Fach: And here’s why. We have to know everything that’s going on across multiple platforms, right?
Loren Baker: Right.
Melissa Fach: And topics. So, like, I have to keep up on what’s changing in SEO. I have to keep up on what’s changing in social. I have to know what the social tools are. I have to be the companies. I have to represent the companies I work for as Melissa, right?
Loren Baker: Mhmm.
Melissa Fach: And then I have to also do personal branding for myself as Melissa, because when I leave those companies, I am essentially, right now, my own brand. They’re hiring me. Right?
Loren Baker: Right.
Melissa Fach: So…this is a different kind of industry, Loren, where part of your job is to monitor everything that goes on in social for each of the companies you work for, for yourself, for your industry. I mean, it’s…it is fatiguing, because you don’t really get a break. Now, what I’ve done is just…the weekends, I tend to shut off.
Loren Baker: Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa Fach: You know? So…
Loren Baker: And what I tried doing for a while, is I would jump on social media in the morning.
Melissa Fach: Mhmm.
Loren Baker: And then maybe a little bit at lunch, to see what’s going on, and then in the afternoons, late afternoon, early evening. But what happens is that, you know, if I’m open to a project or writing something up, or whatever, and something happens, like, something I should know that’s going on. And you kinda feel this thing with social media like you have to know. Like you have to be one of the first people to find out, re-tweet, let your clients know…
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: Ping somebody over at the blog to let them know you’re gonna write it or that it should be covered, or whatever.
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: So it is difficult to kinda turn that off, and then now it’s election time, too, right? So it’s just, like, so hard not to, like, sit there and rant all morning about this and that. Yeah…it is kind of interesting. So anyway, you went from SEJ, right?
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: A full-on publication. To Moz, which, let’s just call a hybrid publication and tool company, right?
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: And then to…Authority Labs. Which is really interesting, because Authority Labs, pure tool, data company. Everyone in the…most people in the industry know Chase and the other guys over there.
Melissa Fach: Mhmm.
Loren Baker: It took me a while to figure out what they did, because I always saw them at different events and saw them sponsoring and then just, like, you know, checked out Authority Labs, and then I knew, but…it…it wasn’t really…they had a blog, right? That was publishing a lot of things. But a lot of the blog stuff was very data-driven, ‘cause that’s what they are.
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: So…you basically went from a tool company…you went from Moz, with the huge readership, huge community, you know, people participating, and YouMoz, and…and on their social media channels, and leaving comments at 3 in the morning to Authority Labs, so it almost sounds like you had the chance to…not build from scratch, ‘cause they already have a following, don’t get me wrong. But…almost build a personality to that…
Melissa Fach: Well, yeah. There’s…well, I was actually with Authority Labs before Moz.
Loren Baker: Okay.
Melissa Fach: Okay? So…Authority Labs is a totally different beast than Moz.
Loren Baker: Right.
Melissa Fach: Right? Because Moz is…their community helps fund their tool sales, right?
Loren Baker: Mhmm.
Melissa Fach: Authority Labs, yeah. We work on their personality, and I work on their blog, but they have a pretty substantial client base, they’re just very quiet about it.
Loren Baker: Yes.
Melissa Fach: Right? So…a lot of people are paying for tools and those tools get their data from Authority Labs. So with Authority Labs, the difference is conversion, conversion, conversion. Are we increasing sales each month? You know what I mean? And we’ve found some ways to do that. And it’s really been what…I mean, for a long time, anytime you take over a blog, you kind of have to figure out what the audience wants and who your audience is, and we now have it very fine-tuned who our audience is that reads our blog.
Loren Baker: That’s great.
Melissa Fach: And we know what they wanna see and what they enjoy. What we tweet every day is aimed at that audience as well, okay? So it’s really more about educating specific markets that use our tools. And then we’ve been doing Hangouts for the last month or so…couple of months, and those are gonna be every two weeks.
Loren Baker: Yeah, I was just on one!
Melissa Fach: Yeah. Oh, yeah. That’s right! You were on one. And so we’ve been doing those, and as you know from your Hangout, it’s again aimed at education. That is what their audience wants, is the nitty-gritty education.
Loren Baker: Right.
Melissa Fach: They don’t really have the time to do what you and I do, which is to talk and to comment and to get active on social. They’re more business or agencies craving information and, like, putting it to use. So…it’s a completely different audience.
Loren Baker: Gotcha.
Melissa Fach: And so…but Authority Labs grows year after year, and that’s what we want. Right? Because I think we have…we have half of our industry, Loren, who is about the notoriety and being seen. And you have another half who are just raking in cash.
Loren Baker: It’s true.
Melissa Fach: Right?
Loren Baker: You have the…you have the Stringer Bells, right? Are you a fan of The Wire? I’ve been binge watching it recently.
Melissa Fach: Yeah, okay.
Loren Baker: So you have your Stringer Bells, right? That are very…kind of behind the scenes. Up in the high rise, not necessarily down there making any noise, or whatever, then you have your guys that are…that are doing podcasts, I guess. Like me. Or speaking, and everything else. So…yeah. Yeah. It is. And it’s funny that you bring that up, because like you said, a lot of people utilize Authority Labs data that aren’t direct Authority Labs customers. They’re customers of another service or toolset, or whatever it may be.
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: So it’s not like they have that direct customer line from a B to…I mean, let’s just call it B to C, right?
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: It’s moreso…B to B powering everything. So it sounds like you, one, just a recap. One, you identify the audience as being different that the audience that you had before. Two, you put together a content plan, really, to produce content on the blog, to share that socially, social interaction around that audience. And then three, watch it succeed and grow. So are you…you know, forgive me Melissa, for putting you on the spot here, ‘cause I really don’t like it when people ask me this question myself, but I get this question a lot, of course, because I am still on the…I am on the consultancy side and the agency side of things. But…do you see a direct ROI from the content marketing that you’ve done with the companies that you work with, or work for?
Melissa Fach: Yes.
Loren Baker: Okay. How so?
Melissa Fach: Okay. Well…
Loren Baker: Without getting into something that you can’t share, of course.
Melissa Fach: Right. It really…it comes down to, for me, fine-tuning the audience that can afford to pay you, right? And feeding them the information that they need to invest in your product or service.
Loren Baker: Right.
Melissa Fach: Right? And that is…you know, the economy is turning around. It’s getting better. But for a long time, Loren, a lot of people were, like, “I’m not paying until you prove to me that I should invest in this.” Right?
Loren Baker: True. True.
Melissa Fach: And…it was a rough couple of years, trying to get people to do this or to do that. Right? So…it all depends on really what your focus is. So if your focus is just to build your brand, content is a great and easy way to do that. I mean, it’s simple. You wanna build a personality, let people see who you are? Content’s a great way to do that. It’s easy to do. It’s harder to create content and see an ROI. And that just requires testing, testing, testing.
Loren Baker: Well, and…you know, you brought up getting people to invest.
Melissa Fach: Mhmm.
Loren Baker: In the company, and getting people to invest in the company is not necessarily only restrictive to new customers. But there’s also the retention of current customers, where this comes into play as well.
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: So you see content marketing kind of helping out things on the account management/client services, relationship building, trust building, positioning the company as being a thought leader, type of thing. Which everyone loves to hear and a lot of people want to achieve, or a lot of tools they want to achieve, but that definitely helps with the ongoing investment in terms of keeping the customer.
Melissa Fach: Right, it does. And, you know, for people like me. I tend to not like change, right? So…if I invest in, like, let’s say Authority Labs, and I get to know that company a little bit better, and I know they know their stuff, and I know they’re paying attention to what the changes are in SEO and local, right?
Loren Baker: Yeah.
Melissa Fach: Then I…if I know that they are really on it, then I can trust that their tool is gonna remain on it. Right? And so…the other thing you have to look at, too, Loren, is who is making these financial decisions.
Loren Baker: Right.
Melissa Fach: And how you’re going to prove to them. Because whoever makes that decision may change jobs, and then you have the next person coming in.
Loren Baker: Yep.
Melissa Fach: So you have to constantly be focused on whoever is making these decisions on what tools we’re going to invest in, how do we convince them that we are the one? Right? And so…you know, we have a formula that tends to be working for us at this point….
Loren Baker: That’s great.
Melissa Fach: And, you know, I…as you know, I mean, I worked with you. Whoever I work for, I wanna do a good job for.
Loren Baker: Absolutely.
Melissa Fach: But I am also huge into the companies that I work for, trusting them personally as well. And the Authority Labs guys are a rare breed. I mean, they’re just…every single one of ‘em, good people. You know what I mean? Like…and so, a lot of people are, like, “I don’t know what Authority Labs is.” And it was, like, “I don’t care.” I love ‘em, I’m working for ‘em. You know what I mean? So…I would do anything to help them do well. But I think people have to really care about the company they work for and enjoy working for them to provide quality work.
Loren Baker: Absolutely. So you’re gonna hop on the Authority Labs Jeep on the way to Pubcon this year? Do the cross country tour?
Melissa Fach: No. ‘Cause they’re in Phoenix, and I’m in Florida, and I have to get on a plane.
Loren Baker: I thought Mike was in the Carolinas, or something.
Melissa Fach: No. He moved back to Phoenix.
Loren Baker: Oh, okay. Okay.
Melissa Fach: Yeah, they’re all there. So…so it’s flying for me! But we do…the best memories I have of Vegas are with the Authority Labs guys. They know the place.
Loren Baker: Yeah. Yeah, they do.
Melissa Fach: You know? So…but no. It’s good. I mean, I think people should not be afraid of changing what they’re doing. I was…I mean, Loren, it was a very hard thing for me to do, to work and build a company and build a client base, and go through the starving, starving, and just, you know, taking crappy clients to, you know, build a client base…to leave it all behind was a little difficult at first.
Loren Baker: Mhmm.
Melissa Fach: But now, I’m making 9x the money that I was, you know. And…and I’m much happier.
Loren Baker: That’s great. That’s what we all want at the end…that’s why we all started…
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: …doing this back in the day, right? It’s…
Melissa Fach: Right. But the other part is the networking and the relationship building, and the not getting involved in the industry drama, you know what I mean?
Loren Baker: Mhmm.
Melissa Fach: You can observe it, but you don’t wanna get involved in it.
Loren Baker: I try to stay as far away as possible.
Melissa Fach: Right. I…
Loren Baker: Ba-dum-bum-ching. Um, no. no. Yeah. I agree.
Melissa Fach: So, I…I do think that the one recommendation I’d make for everybody is to be branding themselves while they’re branding the companies they’re working for.
Loren Baker: You’re building your resume, right? So…
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: That makes total sense. Another thing, too, is not to get carried away. I mean, find the balance. Like, sometimes…sometimes you will see folks doing too much personal branding…
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: While they’re supposed to be working on the company side. And…you know, that can definitely raise red flags. But really to find the balance. ‘Cause when I think of you, I think of Pubcon and Authority Labs.
Melissa Fach: Okay.
Loren Baker: Which is a good thing. I mean, it shows that you’ve built your personal brand, but also, as your personal brand has grown positively, so has the association…the positive association with those two brands.
Melissa Fach: Right. That’s good.
Loren Baker: Yeah. Yeah. So, tell Brett I said that, next time you’re…
Melissa Fach: I’ll tell him. I’ll say, “You need to listen to Loren’s podcast, Brett!”
Loren Baker: No, but it’s…and it’s interesting, too, because along this trail, we’re talking, like, consulting, SEJ, Moz, Authority Labs, right?
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: And then now…Pubcon. And Moz does events, and SEJ does some events. And stuff like that. But Pubcon is a pure event company, right?
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: We’re talking about pure…they don’t even have the forum anymore, right?
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: So…pure events, but with the common denominator of it all targeting the same industry.
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: So…
Melissa Fach: And to be honest with you, this is the job that intimidates me the most.
Loren Baker: Pubcon.
Melissa Fach: Pubcon.
Loren Baker: Why so?
Melissa Fach: It’s the one that makes me nervous, because everyone in this industry pays attention to Pubcon. They know what it is. And I have this weight on my back to do a really good job, because you know if you fail at this one, everyone’s gonna say you fail at this one.
Loren Baker: Well, I tell you…
Melissa Fach: Right?
Loren Baker: I tell you, too. I say this a lot. Is that Pubcon…I mean, I speak sometimes, right? Go to events, and speak, and stuff like that. And Pubcon is one of the ones where I get the most nervous, because when I look in the back of the room, it’s like Martinibuster, and Oil Man, and Frank Bauer back there. And you know you have to bring it. Like, you can’t mess up.
Melissa Fach: You can’t mess up.
Loren Baker: You can’t…start giving out misinformation, or jumping to conclusions, or spitting out theories that don’t exist, because they may not call you out there, but they’re gonna call you out at the bar later on, right?
Melissa Fach: Right. Right. And you know, the first time I spoke at Pubcon, Boser walked in my…in the room. And it totally threw me off. I’m like, “Oh, my God. I can’t screw up in front of Boser.” And honestly, for half my talk, I’m like, “He’s staring at me. He’s staring at me.” You know?
Loren Baker: Was that the one where we were both speaking on the same panel?
Melissa Fach: Yes.
Loren Baker: Okay, yeah.
Melissa Fach: We were on the same panel. And I was like, so…like, “Oh, my God.” You know. And so it is, and it’s, you know…now that I’m working with Pubcon, I know who the attendees are. Right? So I know how big some of these companies are that are sitting in the audience, which is…I mean, you wouldn’t know. You don’t know. They’re just people sitting out there.
Loren Baker: Right.
Melissa Fach: But I now know who they are. And I’m doing the Master Training this year, on Monday.
Loren Baker: Okay. Okay.
Melissa Fach: Golly, man. Like…it’s like, okay. You gotta make sure you know exactly everything, the right way. You know, it is pressure. Because those people are paying more to be in the Master Training group, right?
Loren Baker: Right. Right.
Melissa Fach: So there…there’s even more pressure than just the attendees. And then I’m moderating, like, three or four sessions and doing a site clinic, but I don’t have to actually create presentations, but yeah. I mean…for, like, the rest of the conference. But speaking at Pubcon…it is an amazing experience, but there’s a pressure to do a really good job.
Loren Baker: Oh, yeah.
Melissa Fach: And I’m hoping that, you know…all the new speakers this year take that and, you know…do a…try. Because it’s a make it or break it deal. I mean, you know. In the hallways. If someone does…you know, says something. It’s…it’s talked about.
Loren Baker: Yeah, especially with all these all-star dream speakers at Pubcon this year.
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: It’s a lineup, right? So…one other thing about Pubcon, too, is that…and we were talking about this before. I think this year, for the first time in a long time, has been where there’s been conversation around Pubcon Vegas, online? Like, way before it. Like…in the Facebook group.
Melissa Fach: Mhmm.
Loren Baker: In the Pubcon…I guess it’s a private group, or whatever you wanna call it. There is so much conversation going on. Like, I would think that Pubcon is next week. It’s like…there’s so much conversation going on about it. And, like, I’m ready…and you know, I was in Vegas for almost an entire month and a half straight last year. I went home back to LA, like, once. For a one-week period. ‘Cause I was there for Pubcon, and then a couple of other conferences. So we just stayed for a long time, and I was totally Vegased out. Like, I didn’t want to see Vegas at all. But now, like, with all this conversation going on around Pubcon…Pubcon this, and Pubcon that. I’m ready to go!!
Melissa Fach: Well, my goal there was to make people anxious for it.
Loren Baker: Yeah.
Melissa Fach: And to create a “can’t miss” feeling. And because…I mean, what is my job? My job is to bring money in for Brett.
Loren Baker: Right. So there’s the ROI on the community management, then.
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: Again, right?
Melissa Fach: Right. If I had been doing all this and Brett had not seen an increase, or doesn’t see an increase in ticket sales, then I feel like a failure. Right? So…that’s…it really comes down to…and Brett didn’t come to me and say, “Increase ticket sales”. He didn’t say that, you know?
Loren Baker: Well, that’s old school work ethic right there, Melissa.
Melissa Fach: Right. Okay, well. That was the pressure on me, is I…you know. But the other thing is that I wanted to get across to people is that feeling of excitement and awe of being at Pubcon, because for me, Pubcon has always felt like…like family and friends. Like, you’re going to a reunion where there just happens to be education. Right?
Loren Baker: Yeah. If you make it to the sessions.
Melissa Fach: Right, if you make it to the sessions. And so…but, you know, the other thing is, is I have never gone to a Pubcon where I didn’t make money.
Loren Baker: Mhmm. Yeah.
Melissa Fach: Right? So…sessions, yes. You wanna go to sessions, but you also…you’re there for work.
Loren Baker: Yeah.
Melissa Fach: So…to me it’s a….
Loren Baker: Really?
Melissa Fach: It’s been a win-win. Well, this time I actually have to work, right? Like, I don’t…it’s gonna be working all day. But it has always been work, you know, for me, and…I know Dave Snyder and I had a podcast, and he talked about how he always has meetings set up at Pubcon and, you know, it’s…it is a unique place. So what I was trying to do and what I’m gonna continue to try to do, is to get people to have that anxious feeling, and “I don’t want to miss it this year.” You know? So…I’m hoping I’m doing that.
Loren Baker: Yeah, it really is a good…and it’s funny, too. ‘Cause I get people at…especially…I have some friends that are in, like…they’re…they go and they speak at conferences where a lot of the people at the conferences, like, sign up for their program, or sign up for the whatever they’re representing, right? That’s what the conferences are set up for.
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: And, so they’re asking me, like, “Do you really get anything from speaking to a room of other people and peers in your industry?” And you know, I was very honest in my response, I’m like, it used to be, six years ago…that if I went up…if I was speaking on a link-building session. Or a content marketing session, right?
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: And there were content marketing sessions six years ago.
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: Surprisingly enough, it’s nothing new.
Melissa Fach: Wasn’t called “content marketing” then, am I right?
Loren Baker: It was called marketing, right?
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: So if I was speaking on that, I would typically get people coming up with cards, with business cards, after my session, asking about contracting me or my company to do work for them. Like, it would happen quite often. That’s how I used to get a lot of clients. Now, not so much…right after the session, but I’ll tell you where it helps. I typically get calls two to three months afterwards from companies saying that they had representatives in the crowd that had added me to the list of people they wanted to contact, right?
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: About doing a specific service, whether it’s content or links or SEO, whatever. And then two, it is, like, the…it’s nice when people hear that you’re a speaker, right? Especially…
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: Especially Pubcon this year seems like, I don’t want to say harder to speak, but there’s a lot more different speakers, and it feels like it’s…I’m excited I got picked to speak at Pubcon this year, right?
Melissa Fach: Right!
Loren Baker: Like, there are people really sweatin’ it.
Melissa Fach: I know!
Loren Baker: And I was sweatin’ it for a while until I got an email, like, “Yes, I’m picked to speak!” So…
Melissa Fach: I think people have to look at it, you know. There’s a pressure for Brett to ensure that there’s enough change, right? I mean, like, I spoke on the same session, like, two or three times.
Loren Baker: Yeah.
Melissa Fach: But, you know…people come to two or three Pubcons and they’re, like, bored. “Well, these are the same things I’ve already been to.”
Loren Baker: Yeah.
Melissa Fach: “So why should I go back?” Well, so…this year is a whole new…I think there’s one or two sessions that have remained from the last schedule.
Loren Baker: Mhmm.
Melissa Fach: Everything’s new. Speakers were chosen differently. It’s a whole different ballgame, and it’s all aimed at ensuring that different, you know, categories of people are educated on different things.
Loren Baker: That’s great. Is Affiliate Marketing a track this year? I can’t remember if that was cut or not. Or…
Melissa Fach: I think we have some Affiliate Marketing sessions.
Loren Baker: Okay.
Melissa Fach: I don’t…I’d have to go and look, honestly.
Loren Baker: Okay. Cool, cool.
Melissa Fach: So…
Loren Baker: So you’re doing the community management, social media…a bit of content marketing for Pubcon. People are talking about it beforehand, which is great. We have lots of new speakers. And it’s funny, I had done a podcast…a couple of podcasts back, I was talking to Craig Raynor at UnGagged about this, and you know, those guys, they’re entering a market that’s, you know, pretty saturated in terms of conferences, so they’re trying to do things differently.
Melissa Fach: Mhmm.
Loren Baker: And we were talking about conferences; specifically, search marketing or Internet marketing conferences that have done well over the past four years, and that haven’t. And what the differences have been. And the main difference that I see…and I mean, we’re talking about a market right now where, you know, you were talking about it earlier. The economy is picking back up now, but everyone knows that some budgets were cut in the past couple of years, in terms of travel budgets, and also, that we’re in a market now where a lot of tool companies are holding their own conferences, right?
Melissa Fach: Right. Mhmm.
Loren Baker: And Conductor’s done it forever. Search Metrics is doing it. You have just about any tool company out there, who’s holding their own conference and inviting their client base. Uh…HubSpot’s done it forever. Moz does it, still does it. Without a tool, I guess. But, you know, so…there’s a lot more competition, and the two that I brought up, really, were Pubcon and SMX, as examples of the preexisting events that have changed and continued to change and evolve with the times, and are still doing well because of that.
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: You know, and there is that excitement to attend Pubcon this year. There is that excitement to go to SMX Advanced. There is that excitement to, you know, go to one of these two. And in some…I’m sure in some businesses, people only have a chance to go to one or the other. So it’s really, you know, how to differentiate yourself. How to be top of mine when everyone’s, you know, talking about it. So that’s great to see that that’s happening, not only with the lineup, which I think has always been phenomenal, but also with the…I guess the online presence and conversation around the brand, too.
Melissa Fach: Right. Well, and the other thing I would say that, you know…I have always had myself go to two conferences a year.
Loren Baker: Mhmm.
Melissa Fach: As, like, a mom, I didn’t wanna leave more than that. I have been to many conferences, you know? I mean, I used to go to the Blue Glass, you know. I went to different conferences. I’ve been to different…you know. What I will say is, is that if you are having a conference, ensuring that people feel comfortable and welcome is, like, critical. There are conferences that I will never return to, because there’s, like, an elitist behavior. You know what I mean? Which I don’t really believe in that. You’re…everybody’s a person. Treat ‘em with respect, right? And that’s part of the reason is…you know, I hate to fly. I hate it.
Loren Baker: I didn’t know that.
Melissa Fach: Oh. Oh, God. Like, I have to take a pill to get on a plane. So for me…
Loren Baker: Like Mr. T? Like B. A. Baracus from the A-Team?
Melissa Fach: Yeah. So for me to go all the way to Vegas from Florida tells you that it is a place I enjoy being, right? Because it’s a welcoming place. And so, it’s…it’s kind of…I know there’s so many conferences now that it’s hard to even keep up with what’s what and who’s who, you know? It’s a tough industry to get into. So the best thing for Pubcon right now is just to pull the whole community together and make sure we’re remaining bonded.
Loren Baker: So, you know. Looking back at everything that you’ve worked on, whether it’s been SEJ, Moz, Authority Labs, Pubcon…it’s…from a community-building aspect or a publishing aspect, it’s all been great. When I think about, you know, while I’ve been talking, I’ve been trying to think about other SEO companies, or tool companies that have done something similar. I would say that, like, when I think of services companies, specifically SEO-oriented, one of the only ones that I can think of offhand that’s really built a great community and learning environment, really early on, too, was Bruce Clay.
Melissa Fach: Oh, yeah. Mhmm.
Loren Baker: You know, he had Lisa Barone.
Melissa Fach: Yep.
Loren Baker: Blogging there. Gosh, six years ago, or whatever? Covering conferences, doing loads of other things, and really building a community around the brand, which is an SEO services and consulting company.
Melissa Fach: Right.
Loren Baker: And they’re still doing a great job with Virginia Nussey and everyone else there.
Melissa Fach: Yep.
Loren Baker: So, you know, this is…if a company like Bruce’s has done that for, like, let’s say, six, seven years.
Melissa Fach: Well, no, ‘cause you know what? She left….Lisa left Bruce in 2008.
Loren Baker: Right.
Melissa Fach: So…and she…so that’s been seven years, and then she was doing it long before that, so, yeah.
Loren Baker: Yeah.
Melissa Fach: He’s been doing it a long time.
Loren Baker: Yeah. Really has.
Melissa Fach: Yeah. If you want to make a name for yourself, or if you want to…if you want that foundation, I mean, Bruce Clay has a solid foundation. Right? He’s got the community, he’s got the content, he’s got that feeling around his brand. People trust that brand. I know if I go to their blog, I’m gonna get something that’s solid, you know what I mean? I don’t have to necessarily doubt if it’s valid or not.
Loren Baker: Mhmm.
Melissa Fach: I think that’s really critical, and I think that is more critical today, Loren, than anything, because a lot of people are so, “We need to get content up as fast as possible”, but they’re not checking the validity of what is being said.
Loren Baker: Right.
Melissa Fach: And that has hurt quite a few brands, in my opinion. Like, once my trust is lost, my trust is lost. So, yeah. I mean, I get where you’re going. I mean, you have to…businesses have got to really start focusing on having what I call “the whole plate full”. You know? The meat, the potatoes, the vegetables, the…you know. Make sure you have everything in place.
Loren Baker: So what are…to finish things up here, ‘cause we’re about 43-44 minutes in, what are the three main tips you would give to anyone either starting a community/publishing/content marketing strategy for an existing business in the SEO Internet market field, yeah. What are the three tips you would give?
Melissa Fach: Oh, boy. I think that you have to figure out, first, what your goals of doing this are gonna be.
Loren Baker: Mhmm.
Melissa Fach: Is it branding, ROI, both, right? I think you have to be extremely careful with who you choose to run it for you. The wrong person saying the wrong thing will cripple a business. And…you know, if you have a feeling going through…and you and I both know, in this industry, there are teams of people at trusted companies that…their community team is not well-liked. Right? That hurts your brand.
Loren Baker: Yeah.
Melissa Fach: So who you choose is extremely critical. And gee, what would be a good third? You put me on the spot, here!
Loren Baker: When you choose it?
Melissa Fach: Ugh, well…
Loren Baker: You know what’s interesting, too? You know what’s another company that I was talking about with someone the other day that’s done a great job, is SEMrush.
Melissa Fach: Yes. They’ve done a good job, yeah.
Loren Baker: Like, you talk about a company that…a year and a half, two years ago, was known just as being a Russian toolset with a bunch of data. Great data, but something that a tool suite, or…I’ll call it a toolset, ‘cause they haven’t always been a suite, right? They rolled out a lot in the past couple of years. But, you know, customer service…their marketing team, everything is…they weren’t strong marketers.
Melissa Fach: They put a…
Loren Baker: It was very word-of-mouth. SEMrush has always been very word-of-mouth and strong data. And…now, like, I see #SEMrush chat trending, like, every single time I go on Twitter, it’s trending.
Melissa Fach: Right. Right. And that’s…
Loren Baker: It’s crazy.
Melissa Fach: And that could be the third, is to create that personality for your business. ‘Cause that’s what they did.
Loren Baker: Mhmm.
Melissa Fach: They started actively blogging. They started reaching out to bloggers that they respected and trusted. You know?
Loren Baker: Yeah.
Melissa Fach: And they have the chat on Twitter. And people know who they are, and…they are a brand, but people have a feeling towards them, you know.
Loren Baker: Yes!
Melissa Fach: A trust. That trust and that feeling that you create with your community, it’s very hard to break, right? And once you’ve got that solid around your company, you kind of ensure you have a solid customer base.
Loren Baker: Absolutely.
Melissa Fach: So I think that that really has to be…let’s make that the number three, is make sure…your brand has a personality or that feeling of trust built around them with their community. That will…you know. Even if you don’t increase rapidly, that you maintain your current income, right?
Loren Baker: Amazing. Amazing.
Melissa Fach: So…that would be, I guess, my third.
Loren Baker: Well, thanks again. Thanks again Melissa Fach, whose last name I have mispronounced for years until I was corrected awhile back. So…thanks a lot. Thanks a lot, Melissa Fach for joining us here on Search & Deploy. I really appreciate it. As does, I’m sure, our audience, who’s just listened to this. And we’ll see you at Pubcon this year. I’m really excited about this year.
Melissa Fach: Oh, me too! I can’t wait to see you!
Loren Baker: Alright, great. Thanks again!
Melissa Fach: Thanks.
Loren Baker: Oh, where can we find you online, by the way?
Melissa Fach: I am @SEOAware on Twitter.
Loren Baker: SEOAware.
Melissa Fach: Yep.
Loren Baker: Cool, alright.
Melissa Fach: Cool, thanks.
Loren Baker: We’ll drop a link in the show. So, thanks a lot, Melissa!
Melissa Fach: Thanks, Loren.
